Drive Train Gearing Bible

Gearboxs, Transfers, Tailshafts, Diffs, axles and CVs

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby rory18 on Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:30 +0000

How about I donate my nitro gears for your go fast parts? ;)
User avatar
rory18
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:10 +0000


 

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby StevenS on Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:38 +0000

rory18 wrote:How about I donate my nitro gears for your go fast parts? ;)


I like that word donate :lol:

as far as I know there aren't many high HP hiluxes getting around that have been regeared, so the concensus is to go back to the factory 3.5s and see how that goes.
Going to miss the extra torque off the line though :cry:
User avatar
StevenS
 
Posts: 1172
Joined: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 7:49 +0000
Location: SE QLD

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby rory18 on Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:50 +0000

Good excuse to fit the prado 6 speed box.
User avatar
rory18
Platinum Subscriber
 
Posts: 777
Joined: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 10:10 +0000

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby keleher on Fri, 16 Oct 2015 10:23 +0000

Hi Guys
Got a regear to 3.909 from 3.58 and running 32's. I know going to 32s brought the speedo up to almost accurate but just to confirm so I don't get hit with a ticket, will the regear reintroduce the 8-10% error? So say the speedo reads 110km/h but it is more like 100km/h?
Cheers
James
User avatar
keleher
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 9:50 +0000

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby bennyo on Thu, 10 Mar 2016 9:35 +0000

I have read the whole thread and many others, I think that I have this nutted, but I will put it out for a sanity check.

2012 D4D SR manual with 255/85R16s, 40K km on it. As it is the ute doesn't feel too much different from stock in terms of acceleration, and at 100km/h on a couple of GPS apps seems to be at about 104.

I'm going to lock it F&R, and since I am going to have it apart anyway, if I can do it for a reasonable price I will regear. I have calculated that 3.9s will take me back to stock gearing. 4.1s will make it the same as the original 05+ gearing but I would likely need a speedo corrector as well. I am leaning toward the 3.9s to keep it all nice and simple. Does this sound reasonable?

With regard to rebuilding used diffs, what do you think is a reasonable number of km before it's really required? If I don't regear, I don't think that I should have to rebuild my existing diffs, but if I pick up some 3.9s with say 60K on them, would it be reasonable to use them as is?
bennyo
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:30 +0000

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby packeteer on Thu, 10 Mar 2016 9:44 +0000

diffs should last the life of the vehicle, but this varies due to the way the vehicle is used :twisted:

and if you do want to regear, look for some 3.9's out of a 2014/2015 diesel auto. I put 4.1's into my diesel manual and they're great offroad, but tend to rev a bit much on the highway

if you ever do rebuild, make sure to get master install kits and solid spacers (helps them stand up to abuse better)
2011 Dual Cab SR5 D4D manual.
build thread
shed page
User avatar
packeteer
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 1:49 +0000
Location: Chatswood, Sydney

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby Richolux150 on Thu, 10 Mar 2016 12:36 +0000

Ok so I've just skimmed through 30 pages of this thread and like some others are no more confused then when I started....... :oops: :oops: :oops:

At the moment I have standard diff gearing in my 2012 SR Manual.......a few months back I installed an ARB locker in the front still with the standard gearing.........now considering regearing to 4.1's but does this mean I now have the wrong ARB air locker installed ???? :( :( :( :(

That is that the 4.1's wont fit on the Locker already installed :?: :?: :?:
Cheers Richo
If cat turds were Gold nuggets, I'd be the richest bloke on the block... :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
Richolux150
 
Posts: 662
Joined: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 8:39 +0000
Location: The Goldy

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby TOYZX on Thu, 10 Mar 2016 1:26 +0000

Pretty sure if ya get new gears to suit the hilux you should be ok. From what I took from the reading is that if you get prado gears you'll need a prado locker.
User avatar
TOYZX
Moderator
 
Posts: 2919
Joined: Wed, 08 May 2013 7:58 +0000

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby dooma on Thu, 10 Mar 2016 1:39 +0000

MR do a 4.1 to suit the standard lockers. Talk to them.
User avatar
dooma
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 9:51 +0000

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby packeteer on Thu, 10 Mar 2016 1:48 +0000

to keep your locker you would need to get "thick cut" front gears

there's a few places that sell them now (including MR)
2011 Dual Cab SR5 D4D manual.
build thread
shed page
User avatar
packeteer
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 1:49 +0000
Location: Chatswood, Sydney

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby bennyo on Thu, 10 Mar 2016 2:26 +0000

packeteer wrote:diffs should last the life of the vehicle, but this varies due to the way the vehicle is used :twisted:

and if you do want to regear, look for some 3.9's out of a 2014/2015 diesel auto. I put 4.1's into my diesel manual and they're great offroad, but tend to rev a bit much on the highway

if you ever do rebuild, make sure to get master install kits and solid spacers (helps them stand up to abuse better)


sweet, thanks for the reply. Got some 3.9:1 diffs from a 2014 Hilux on the way. $1200 delivered, which I am pretty happy with :D
bennyo
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 11:30 +0000

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby Richolux150 on Thu, 10 Mar 2016 6:03 +0000

dooma wrote:MR do a 4.1 to suit the standard lockers. Talk to them.

Thanks Gents thats great news.......regear and rear locker coming up..... :D :D :D
Cheers Richo
If cat turds were Gold nuggets, I'd be the richest bloke on the block... :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
Richolux150
 
Posts: 662
Joined: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 8:39 +0000
Location: The Goldy

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby apSlain on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:17 +0000

Okay, as with everyone else who has read the thirty odd pages, I have some questions :lol: Hopefully I've collated some useful information here as well.

First, here are my vehicle specifications, general usage, and what I'm after.

Vehicle Specifications & Considerations
2006 HiLux, D4D, manual transmission, open differentials, running 265/75R16 tyres (813mm = 32.0079").
The maximum tyre size I'll consider are 33" but it's unlikely I'll move to them.

So, my ratio (assuming stock) is 3.583:1.
I have an SR so if I do get a front Prado carrier I will need to retain (?) the HiLux front axle tube (due to the lack of A.D.D. in the SR) (quite unsure on this one).

General Usage
I use the vehicle as my daily driver and getaway enabler. I don't seek out hardcore tracks but if there's a hardcore track between me and a destination, odds are that I'm giving the track a shot. I never tow and don't plan to, nor do I carry heavy loads (only weight the tub sees is camping gear).

What I'm After
I plan to lock the differentials front and rear with HARROP Eaton ELockers. Off-road performance is what I generally seek as I can tolerate more noise in the cab just fine (for example, lift and the move from stock tyres to what I have now didn't phase me at all). Wouldn't mind a bit of a quicker take-off either.
I will eventually fit a heavy duty clutch and look into performance modifications but that won't come for a year or two.
I do take care of the vehicle and don't want to compromise longevity too much (vehicle's ten years old, but only just eclipsed 100,000km travelled).

Going by the provided charts on page one, to bring the vehicle to stock I'd be seeking out a 3.9:1 differential ratio. I can also consider moving to the 4.1:1 which will suit fine if I do decide to move to a 33" in future.

My Questions
  1. Am I correct in saying that moving either to 3.9s or 4.1s on 32s will only bring positive effects to the vehicle i.e. won't compromise longevity, better on-road manners, and better off-road performance?
  2. What is easier to source and what is cheaper? The 3.9s or the 4.1s? To me, it seems like the 4.1 is easier and cheaper (see shopping list below) whereas the 3.9 requires either genuine Toyota or wrecker scouring (for 2014+ HiLux D4D auto crown wheel and pinion).
  3. If I decide to go in with a rear ELocker only plus re-gear, will I still require a front Prado carrier? I see that Monster Rides can provide 4.1s to suit the standard HiLux carrier. So, I could theoretically go 4.1s front and rear, rear Elocker, and save on the cost of the Prado carrier as the 4.1s suit the standard carrier?
  4. If I follow through on the previous scenario, will I have any issues fitting a front ELocker down the line (due to now having thick-cut 4.1s in the standard HiLux carrier)?
  5. If I follow the scenario in 3) but with 3.9s, I will require a Prado carrier. Correct?
  6. I saw in a previous post that a power increase led to rear diff damage. I may chase a mild power increase in future; should I be concerned about damage to a 3.9/4.1 after a small increase in power?

The Shopping List
Alright, so let's say I moved ahead with all this. Is this absolutely everything I'd need to get the job done (for this list, assume 4.1s were chosen)?
  • HARROP Eaton ELocker, Front - 99-ELKR11110 - "Vehicle Applications: Toyota Hilux, 2005 - Current, front with 3.91 & Up ratios"
  • HARROP Eaton ELocker, Rear - 99-ELKR9334-00 - "Vehicle Applications: Toyota Hilux, 1990 - Current, Rear"
  • Nitro Gear 4.1, Front - T8S-410RT-NG
  • Nitro Gear 4.1, Rear - TV6-411-29-NG
  • HD Master Install Kit, Rear - MKTV6-29
  • HD Diff Rebuild Kit, Front - MKT8-CS
  • Differential Oils

Comments
From my (admittedly uneducated) view, 3.9s suit my configuration more (daily driver, 45m drive to work with half of that being at 100km/h and above) but seem to be more difficult to source, more expensive, and require an extra cost (front Prado carrier)? Whereas 4.1s seem easier to source, don't require the Prado carrier, and require less work now that they're readily available.

I think I know what I need, just need some confirmation from more savvy minds :) Cheers for anyone who can advise!
Check out Slain's Overlander, a perpetual work-in-progress.
User avatar
apSlain
 
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 10:06 +0000
Location: New South Wales, Australia

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby packeteer on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 12:49 +0000

apSlain wrote: <snip>
My Questions
  1. Am I correct in saying that moving either to 3.9s or 4.1s on 32s will only bring positive effects to the vehicle i.e. won't compromise longevity, better on-road manners, and better off-road performance?
  2. What is easier to source and what is cheaper? The 3.9s or the 4.1s? To me, it seems like the 4.1 is easier and cheaper (see shopping list below) whereas the 3.9 requires either genuine Toyota or wrecker scouring (for 2014+ HiLux D4D auto crown wheel and pinion).
  3. If I decide to go in with a rear ELocker only plus re-gear, will I still require a front Prado carrier? I see that Monster Rides can provide 4.1s to suit the standard HiLux carrier. So, I could theoretically go 4.1s front and rear, rear Elocker, and save on the cost of the Prado carrier as the 4.1s suit the standard carrier?
  4. If I follow through on the previous scenario, will I have any issues fitting a front ELocker down the line (due to now having thick-cut 4.1s in the standard HiLux carrier)?
  5. If I follow the scenario in 3) but with 3.9s, I will require a Prado carrier. Correct?
  6. I saw in a previous post that a power increase led to rear diff damage. I may chase a mild power increase in future; should I be concerned about damage to a 3.9/4.1 after a small increase in power?

<snip>

Great detailed post there mate, unfortunately I'm going to be a little more succinct :)

for a manual (stock 3.5 ratio) using a 285 wide (32.7") tyre, the ideal ratio is 3.9. You can get these from a 2014-2015 diesel auto.
if you want lower gearing (bigger 33's, towing or lots of offroad), then you could consider the 4.1's. just be aware that with a 285 it'll roar on the freeway (2500+ rpm at 110km/h)

as for lockers, the only real differences are with the front. standard Hilux front diff gears are "thickcut". so either replace with thickcut gears (in your ratio of choice), or get a prado full carrier locker ie. elocker

hope that's all clear as mud. fwiw, I'm running 4.1's with 295/70/17, the highway roar sucks, but they're great otherwise
2011 Dual Cab SR5 D4D manual.
build thread
shed page
User avatar
packeteer
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 1:49 +0000
Location: Chatswood, Sydney

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby packeteer on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 1:00 +0000

gear sources:

3.9:
2014-2015 Hilux diesel auto - dont know 100% what these are and what lockers fit
120 series diesel Prado? - requires Prado front Locker or Prado carrier

4.1:
franken-source (Workmate and Prado). cheaper but I dont know exact detail
Nitro brand thick cut - expensive, but a simple bolt up, uses standard Hilux lockers
"Japanese" gears - rear only, but a little cheaper than Nitro. Brand is unknown, but they've been serving me well. Standard lockers

Only extras are Master install kit and Solid pinion spacers. Definitely recommended

edit: corrected comments
Last edited by packeteer on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 2:26 +0000, edited 1 time in total.
2011 Dual Cab SR5 D4D manual.
build thread
shed page
User avatar
packeteer
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 1:49 +0000
Location: Chatswood, Sydney

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby rodw on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 1:34 +0000

apSlain wrote:The Shopping List
Alright, so let's say I moved ahead with all this. Is this absolutely everything I'd need to get the job done (for this list, assume 4.1s were chosen)?
  • HARROP Eaton ELocker, Front - 99-ELKR11110 - "Vehicle Applications: Toyota Hilux, 2005 - Current, front with 3.91 & Up ratios"
  • HARROP Eaton ELocker, Rear - 99-ELKR9334-00 - "Vehicle Applications: Toyota Hilux, 1990 - Current, Rear"
  • Nitro Gear 4.1, Front - T8S-410RT-NG
  • Nitro Gear 4.1, Rear - TV6-411-29-NG
  • HD Master Install Kit, Rear - MKTV6-29
  • HD Diff Rebuild Kit, Front - MKT8-CS
  • Differential Oils


Comments
From my (admittedly uneducated) view, 3.9s suit my configuration more (daily driver, 45m drive to work with half of that being at 100km/h and above) but seem to be more difficult to source, more expensive, and require an extra cost (front Prado carrier)? Whereas 4.1s seem easier to source, don't require the Prado carrier, and require less work now that they're readily available.

I think I know what I need, just need some confirmation from more savvy minds :) Cheers for anyone who can advise!


I think the shopping list is about right. Its several years since I put this bible together and I recently revisited it again. At one stage, I put everything into a spreadsheet and calculated the actual engine RPM at 100 km/hr based on the gear ratios and tyre circumference . This was a far more accurate method than the arbitrary percentages used in the original posts. This data did not lend itself to be posted on a forum due to the limited formatting available but presently it lives here: http://www.budscustoms.com.au/buying/regearing-your-toyota-hilux-150-series/ In this table, you will find that 4.1's are the best ratios for apSlain and his 32" tyres.

It took me a while to get my head around why this approach yielded a different recommended gear set from my original post until I realised that each drive train variation were actually running at different RPM's using the same diff gears whereas the simplistic original approach assumed the drive ratio was constant (eg just based on the diff ratio).

The Diff gears you need will be listed on the site linked to above but I'd recommend you call 07 3133 1660 and talk through what you want rather than just ordering the parts blindly as Nitro have a couple more options now becasue they offer both 27 and 29 spline variants of the 4.1 diff so it is no longer necessary to order the Drive flange which was required.
User avatar
rodw
 
Posts: 3195
Joined: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 2:00 +0000
Location: Brisbane, QLD

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby packeteer on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 2:18 +0000

Rod, imo 4.1's only suit 285 or bigger tyre.

I'm running 4.1's with 295 and I'm sitting on 2500rpm at 110km/h
2011 Dual Cab SR5 D4D manual.
build thread
shed page
User avatar
packeteer
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 1:49 +0000
Location: Chatswood, Sydney

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby packeteer on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 2:21 +0000

apSlain wrote:
  • HARROP Eaton ELocker, Front - 99-ELKR11110 - "Vehicle Applications: Toyota Hilux, 2005 - Current, front with 3.91 & Up ratios"
  • HARROP Eaton ELocker, Rear - 99-ELKR9334-00 - "Vehicle Applications: Toyota Hilux, 1990 - Current, Rear"
  • Nitro Gear 4.1, Front - T8S-410RT-NG
  • Nitro Gear 4.1, Rear - TV6-411-29-NG
  • HD Master Install Kit, Rear - MKTV6-29
  • HD Diff Rebuild Kit, Front - MKT8-CS
  • Differential Oils

Comments
From my (admittedly uneducated) view, 3.9s suit my configuration more (daily driver, 45m drive to work with half of that being at 100km/h and above) but seem to be more difficult to source, more expensive, and require an extra cost (front Prado carrier)? Whereas 4.1s seem easier to source, don't require the Prado carrier, and require less work now that they're readily available.

I think I know what I need, just need some confirmation from more savvy minds :) Cheers for anyone who can advise!


fwiw, that front locker does not match those gears. The gears are thick cut, so a standard Hilux locker for 3.5 ratio will fit
2011 Dual Cab SR5 D4D manual.
build thread
shed page
User avatar
packeteer
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 1:49 +0000
Location: Chatswood, Sydney

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby apSlain on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 2:42 +0000

Thanks packeteer and rodw. I realise my post is a bit of an essay (tendency of mine) but I do try and provide all the information upfront if I'm going to request help :) And thanks for providing all this information, rodw.

packeteer wrote:hope that's all clear as mud. fwiw, I'm running 4.1's with 295/70/17, the highway roar sucks, but they're great otherwise

Only extras are Master install kit and Solid pinion spacers. Definitely recommended

imo 4.1's only suit 285 or bigger tyre

fwiw, that front locker does not match those gears. The gears are thick cut, so a standard Hilux locker for 3.5 ratio will fit

Cheers for that! I might drive the 'Lux home in 4th on the highway for a bit (pretty sure it sits at about 2,500RPM @ 100km/h or thereabouts) and see how much noise is generated. And yes, I will be putting in new gear across the board when I decide to do the job.

I guess if I go 4.1s, it'll be more of a nudge to get 33s...

Yikes, knew I'd get something wrong. So 99-ELKR10994 - "Vehicle Applications: Toyota Hilux, 2005 - Current, front with 3.73 & Down ratios" will suit here due to thick-cut 4.1s (if I decide to go the 4.1 route)? For 3.9s, go the 99-ELKR11110?

rodw wrote:This data did not lend itself to be posted on a forum due to the limited formatting available but presently it lives here: http://www.budscustoms.com.au/buying/re ... 50-series/ In this table, you will find that 4.1's are the best ratios for apSlain and his 32" tyres.

The Diff gears you need will be listed on the site linked to above but I'd recommend you call 07 3133 1660 and talk through what you want rather than just ordering the parts blindly as Nitro have a couple more options now becasue they offer both 27 and 29 spline variants of the 4.1 diff so it is no longer necessary to order the Drive flange which was required.

Cheers rodw, was looking for where that ended up! Admittedly, I'm quite happy that 4.1s are best suited as this was where I was leaning.

I'll definitely call around just to ensure I purchase the right equipment.

Could you clarify what affect the 27/29 spline variants of the 4.1s will have on completing this? I skimmed over the spline count completely. From my quick research just then, we previously needed a multi-fit drive flange to get everything to mate. However, I'm assuming the increased options offered by Nitro make this no longer necessary and it should fit out-of-the-box (assuming the correct gear is purchased)? Are you able to clarify on what spline count I'm after for front and rear re-gearing on an '06 SR D4D, manual transmission?
Check out Slain's Overlander, a perpetual work-in-progress.
User avatar
apSlain
 
Posts: 271
Joined: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 10:06 +0000
Location: New South Wales, Australia

Re: Drive Train Gearing Bible

Postby packeteer on Thu, 07 Apr 2016 3:07 +0000

apSlain wrote:Yikes, knew I'd get something wrong. So 99-ELKR10994 - "Vehicle Applications: Toyota Hilux, 2005 - Current, front with 3.73 & Down ratios" will suit here due to thick-cut 4.1s (if I decide to go the 4.1 route)? For 3.9s, go the 99-ELKR11110?

yes I believe that is correct.

Could you clarify what affect the 27/29 spline variants of the 4.1s will have on completing this? I skimmed over the spline count completely. From my quick research just then, we previously needed a multi-fit drive flange to get everything to mate. However, I'm assuming the increased options offered by Nitro make this no longer necessary and it should fit out-of-the-box (assuming the correct gear is purchased)? Are you able to clarify on what spline count I'm after for front and rear re-gearing on an '06 SR D4D, manual transmission?


I believe the spline count thing is no longer an issue as Nitro now sell the correct ones for our year (it's actually listed in their catalogue), or buy through Buds Customs who I'm sure will verify for you
2011 Dual Cab SR5 D4D manual.
build thread
shed page
User avatar
packeteer
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 1:49 +0000
Location: Chatswood, Sydney

PreviousNext

Return to Drive Train Components

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests